Mark Waid - Barry Kitson: EMPIRE

Barry Kitson's been interested in comics since the tender age of four. He was "instantly hooked" on the colorful costumes and superhero themes. His love of comics grew and he soon found himself drawing some of his favorites in the Marvel UK line. From there he landed his first US job, the Batgirl Special and just kept movin' and grovin' drawing more and more heroes. Currently the talented creator is working with pal, scribe Mark Waid on Empire and an upcoming Fantastic Four arc. We talked with him about those projects, the end of The Titans and more!




THE PULSE: You grew up in the UK ... what was the comics scene like there? Was there a lot of focus on superheroes or were other genres the average fanfare that people were reading about?

KITSON: The comics scene in the UK was totally different to that of the US. Comics were almost all compilations and published weekly rather than monthly. Each story would be one or two pages long and usually have about a dozen panels a page. It wasn’t until 2000AD came along that any UK comics had stories that could be several pages long and have just a handful of panels on each page. Mostly comics from the UK featured war stories, sporting heroes or were humor strips.

THE PULSE: Are you a lifelong comics reader? If so which ones were early favorites?

KITSON: I think I was about four years old when I saw my first US comic – and I was instantly hooked! US Comics used to be brought to the UK on cargo ships as ballast and then distributed pretty haphazardly to newsagents. By pestering my Grandparents to take me to every newsagent on the south coast (comics were easiest to find near the ports where the ships were unloaded) I managed to build up a pretty impressive collection quite quickly. In those days I really didn’t have any particular favorites, I thought every superhero book was fantastic. I probably didn’t have a particular favorite comic or character as such because of the way the books were distributed the UK… it could sometimes take years for an issue to arrive, sometimes a few months after US publication. It meant every time you went to the store it was a real surprise as to what you could buy. I just had a voracious appetite for comics so I bought ANYTHING I didn’t already own.

I had favorite creators and more specifically the artists rather than specific series as such– Kirby, Adams, Buscema, Colan, Infantino, Kane, Wood, Cardy, Swan… just so many great talents around at the time!

THE PULSE: How did you get interested in creating comics?

KITSON: Well, this might sound silly, but it was really the first career I ever wanted. From the first time I saw a Jack Kirby drawing I knew what I wanted to do! I was just so excited by the comics I was reading that I couldn’t imagine anything better to be!



THE PULSE: As both a writer and an artist, which talents developed first - your skill with writing or your artistic talents? How did you help foster and develop both talents?

KITSON: Following on deciding I wanted to draw comics I pretty much set to creating comics straight away – I know by the time I was ten I was producing a comic that was posted on the school notice board each week. I would get up and draw for an hour so each day before I went to school. As I recall it was set in the 21st century (which seemed a long when off then) and heavily influenced by Wally Wood’s T.H.U.N.D.E.R Agents….

As for fostering or developing any talents I might have …on the art side I just kept drawing and reading any ‘How to’ books I could find – I poured over every comic I had trying to work out how those guys did it. Pretty much the same as right now really – I draw for fun as much as I can and I try to learn as much as I can every day… I honestly feel I’m just beginning to get an inkling of what being an artist is all about…give me another 20 years at the board….

I think the real secret – if one exists – is to just keep trying to improve and to enjoy the journey – that keeps things interesting and makes each day an adventure!

I’ve always been interested in storytelling – that’s really what comic art is all about for me – so I’ve always been aware of story structure etc. Part of my analyzing comics would include working out what made the story work etc… how the ‘beats’ would fall as the tale unfolded.

I never really set out to be a writer as such, but I always thought one of the strengths I could bring to a project as the artist was to understand the story and know how to bring it to life as best I could for the writer. I only really began writing myself through default…and the generosity of writers I’d worked with – Alan Grant especially – who when he left L.E.G.I.O.N. suggested I should try writing it on my own.

I still don’t really consider myself a writer really – I’m happiest as a collaborator – I love being involved in the story telling and throwing ideas back and forth with writers. That said, I do have ambitions to write more in the future, mainly as I have a pet project or two that I’d like to see come to fruition – who knows I may yet write my masterpiece :-)

THE PULSE: Who are some of your writing influences? Which authors work do you admire and learn from?

KITSON: I always find these type of questions hard to answer – simply because I admire so many writers and I try to be influence by every good story I read! I’m also sure that whenever I start to list influences I’m bound to leave out someone so I’m loath to even try to start. I’ve certainly been influenced by everyone I’ve worked with… but whether any of that influence is apparent in my writing I wouldn’t like to say. It would be easier to list which artists influenced my storytelling most….

THE PULSE: Who are some of the artists who definitely played a part in the way you render images and comics?

KITSON: Now THIS could become a very long list as I try to pick up something from every piece of artwork I like… but to pick a few major influences… in the early days Jack Kirby, Gil Kane, Gene Colan, John Buscema, Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, Nick Cardy, Curt Swan, Joe Kubert, Wally Wood… the list could go on and on and these are just the MAJOR influences! More contemporary influences would have to include Brian Bolland, Mike Mignola, Kevin Nowlan, Alan Davis, Joe Quesada… I could just go on and on there are just so many talented guys out there I try to learn from - if I had another hour or so I could probably name nearly all of them!

Outside comics I love the work of Alphonse Mucha, Egon Schiele, NC Wyeth, Robert McGinnis, Gustav Klimt, Norman Rockwell, Rick Griffin… I have a really wide range of tastes and I’m sure they all influence me to varying degrees. In fact if I had any advice to offer, it would be to stay as open as you can to all sorts of artwork and find influences in anything you like – I’m always trying to bring new things to my style, trying to find out what works etc, it’s part of what I was saying earlier about never ‘settling’ for a style.



THE PULSE: What factors made you consider working on comic books as an expression of your talents? Were comics always a goal or something you thought about as you got older?

KITSON: ! I think I’ve pretty much answered that one already! As far as my goals are now – it’s to be as good a comic artist as I can be – I still feel like I’m just getting started!

THE PULSE: How did you come to work with Marvel's UK Spider-Man? What did you like the best about this experience? What were some of the biggest challenges to working on Spider-Man?

KITSON: I think I’ll probably answer those in reverse order if that’s okay? :-)

The biggest challenge was that it was my first ever professional work – I had no real idea what I was doing and I was trying to convince the editor that, that wasn’t the case. The best thing about the experience was that thanks to some wonderful inking by Mark Farmer ( I still owe you chum!) I guess I succeeded and I was set on the road of working in comics long term! When I got the job I was walking about six feet off the ground just floating along thinking "I drawing Spider-Man!" over and over in my mind! I probably had an inane grin on my face too!

How I actually got the job is another very long story, but the real short version is that I was in the right place at the right time … and people were very nice to me!

THE PULSE: You haven't done a lot of work with Marvel since those UK days ... why? Do you have a preference to DC characters or is there some other reason for not doing a lot with The House?

KITSON: The honest reason is just that DC have been really nice to me and kept me constantly very busy – for which I am extremely grateful! I have enjoyed working for Marvel in the past and look forward to doing so again! In fact we have been setting up some projects I hope will come to fruition in the not-so-distant future!

THE PULSE: One of your first works at DC was the Batgirl Special. Looking back at that book now, how do you think you've changes as an artist? How has your style evolved?

KITSON: Wow! That’s a real hard question to answer – it’s so subjective. I’d like to think my knowledge of anatomy, storytelling, layout…everything has moved on since then, but just how it’s changed is hard to say. I’m probably the worst person to ask … if I sat down and looked through the comic page by page I could probably pick out dozens of things I’d change and do differently. But I think the fundamental philosophy behind what I do has stayed pretty constant…I’ve just come to understand it and the mechanics involved better. I like to think I’ve learnt a great deal since those days … but only the readers could say whether I’m kidding myself or not!

THE PULSE: After Batgirl you worked on an eclectic mix of titles and characters. Which do you prefer - being regular artist on a series or just doing fill in issues here and there? Why? What are the advantages to both?

KITSON: No contest, I would choose to be a regular artist every time! It goes back to the story telling imperative – I love getting to ‘really know’ a character so that I’m aware of how they move, their particular body language etc. One of the best things for me about working in comics is the interaction with the fans and you only really get that if you work on a title for a good length of time.

There are only two real advantages to doing a fill-in issue here or there; One is just the fun of drawing the characters. I’m very much still a fan at heart so whenever I get any opportunity to draw a great character I’ll try to take it! I still want to draw all the characters that thrilled me when I was a kid…and there’s lots to go yet!

The other is that the odd fill-in also gives you the chance to work with creators you wouldn’t otherwise get a chance to work with. I recently did a Dr.Fate story for the JSA-All Stars book that’s coming out soon written by Geoff Johns and David Goyer and I absolutely had a ball. I can’t wait to work on something else with them! Obviously my schedule won’t allow us to do a regular book together in the foreseeable future but at least I did get to enjoy the experience and that has to be better than missing out all together…

I guess a third advantage might be that you get to show some readers not familiar with your regular series a sample of your work!

I hope in all that rambling there’s a sensible answer somewhere



THE PULSE: When you're working on a title for the first time what kind of research do you do? How important is it for you as an artist to have your style so the work is recognizable as Barry Kitson, but also so the characters are recognizable as well? How hard is it to develop a style?

KITSON: Well I try to make sure I have a clear idea what all the characters should look like in my own mind. I’ll do pretty in depth reading of the past issues so that I’m well grounded in the history and nature of the characters. I don’t think about style really as such – I just draw the way I draw and the rest takes care of itself – any style I adopt is very much an unconscious choice on my part. I really just try to draw in a manner that suits the story – whatever I do I think it’ll come out looking recognizably ‘Barry Kitson’ …sometimes I wish it didn’t ! All I consciously think about it is whether the story is told well by the pictures and that, hopefully, it looks good!

THE PULSE: You've been working on The Titans for a while now ... what initially attracted you to that assignment?

KITSON: It’ll come as no surprise from my previous answers to know it was really the chance to draw a group of characters I really liked!

THE PULSE: Were you very familiar with the Titans? Which version of the team was a particular favorite?

KITSON: I’d been a Titans fan from way back – the Nick Cardy days – and ,of course followed them through the Wolfman/Perez era. Those are the two eras that really stood out for me and to follow in such distinguished footsteps is always a huge thrill!

THE PULSE: Which members of the team were the toughest to get the hang of drawing? Why?

KITSON: I think Donna was by far the toughest for me – probably because I was so conscious of trying to do her justice…and keep her legion of VERY devoted fans happy. I was probably trying to hard for the first few issues, but I felt I was beginning to get the hang of the character after a few issues and beginning to relax into drawing her more. I never quite felt I achieved what I would consider a definitive version, but then that still gives me something to aim for in the future! Also . I would like to have been allowed to give Jesse Quick a new costume – as I wasn’t really too keen on her present one.

THE PULSE: Which members of the team did you enjoy the most drawing? Why?

KITSON: Oh I enjoyed drawing all of them, just because of who they were. I have to admit I was really happy to have gotten the chance to draw Lilith in particular, just because when I was a kid she was one of my all time favorite female characters in comics… probably due to the way Nick Cardy drew her!.

THE PULSE: When you're working on a comic and designing the pages, how conscious are you of trying to use different angles and views to represent something? Are you always trying to evolve and present something in a different fashion? Why is or isn't that important to you?

KITSON: You’ll be aware of a theme to these answers !

I’m very, very aware of using angles and lighting to help tell the story! The choices you make as an artist about these things can have a big influence on how a scene is interpreted by the reader!

I also think it’s absolutely essential to try new ways of story telling and I do put a lot of thought into designing the pages so the story flows and the placing of light and shade enhances rather than detracts from the story. My first and foremost concern is always how well will the story be told - I try not to do something different purely for it’s own sake. When you’ve been drawing comics as long as I have, you do have to be aware of the danger of falling back on the ‘tried and true’ which also has to be avoided - so in all my preliminary work there are lots of ‘new approaches’ tried and every now and then one of them actually works and finds its way into my story-telling arsenal. So, yes, it is important to me to keep trying new approaches and to improve my work in every way!

THE PULSE: Now that you're getting down to some of the final issues for the series is it a little sad to think of this version of The Titans being over? Or are you looking forward to changing gears and working on something different?

KITSON: To be honest I’m enjoying all the new projects I’m working on and very, very , excited and enthused about the work –the situation with the Titans never actually got itself to a point where I felt I could do what I’d really hoped to with the characters. There was a lot of uncertainty while DC decided what long term plans they had for the Titans book and Young Justice- a result of that was the book went into something of a holding pattern. It was still a lot of fun drawing the characters, but also a little frustrating as there was a great deal I would have liked to have done differently and a whole lot of ideas that never got implemented. But that’s just life and at least I did get to fulfill the dream of drawing the characters for a while!

THE PULSE: DC announced a while ago the return of Empire. Why didn't Empire and the rest of the Gorilla Comics line last? What happened to Gorilla Comics?

KITSON: To cut a long story very short – Gorilla wasn’t really set up well enough as a company – none of the creators involved were really businessmen, if only we’d known then what we know now…

THE PULSE: Most of the titles involved in that line were by big name creators with bright ideas, why don't you think the series' did well in the market?

KITSON: I’m not sure that the titles didn’t do well in the market, Empire pretty much sold out and got some wonderful reviews (thanks everyone!) and I know Shockrockets has been reprinted around the world – I saw a very handsome Spanish version of the series recently! We just weren’t prepared financially for the realities of the business environment… but I guess that’s why we all became comics creators rather than businessmen. I think we all learnt a lot… and if we ever went into something like it again I’m sure the experiences would stand us in good stead.

THE PULSE: How did DC become involved with the return of Empire?

KITSON: Well as you know I’ve had a long and happy association with DC, as has Mark, and when they heard that Gorilla wasn’t going to continue publishing the book, but that we were very keen to continue the series they were kind enough to offer us a new home…and even allow us to retain creative ownership so we could have the freedom to realize completely our vision for the series. Everyone at DC has been really supportive of what we’re doing and their enthusiasm has been a real boost for us. Joey Cavalieri has taken on the role of editor and he’s been fantastic to work with!

THE PULSE: What is Empire? What makes it different from the normal comic?

KITSON: Empire’s central premise is ‘what would happen if one of the super villains we’ve all grown up reading actually succeeded in taking over the world’. That’s putting it very simply, because Empire is also very character driven so the shape of the world under Golgoth ( our dictator’s) control is not the same as it would be under someone else’s. We all tend to shape our own little worlds around ourselves, but Golgoth is actually doing it for real and with everyone else’s world too. At the start of the story he has already conquered about 75% of the planet and is ruling the globe from a massive citadel that stands where Central Park used to be. He’s surrounded by people as ruthless and devious as himself and beginning to learn that the old proverb about ‘being careful what you wish for in case you get it’ might just have a lot of truth in it. The stories revolve around the relationships and intrigues amongst the characters, the mechanics of running a global empire and one or two huge secrets yet to be revealed!

What makes it different – aside from the premise itself – is that there are absolutely no boundaries as to where the stories can go and that nothing can be taken for granted. Characters are not what they seem and situations which might at first appear familiar are always given a twist or two to spring some surprises. I know a lot of readers like to try and second guess the comics stories they read which I think will be pretty hard to do with Empire and that should add a lot to the fun of the book.

THE PULSE: When you were designing this comic and coming up with the look and feel of the world and characters, what were some of the factors that influenced you?

KITSON: Really the concept was central to everything – we wanted the characters to look like they belonged in the superhero genre everyone is familiar with and then to have them behave in unexpected ways. The bad guys rule the world, but they look better than anyone else though… which is an effort most dictators seem to make – they are flamboyant and eccentric and their clothes reflect this. Each of their ‘looks’ says something about their character – although they are just as capable of self-deception as they are of deceiving others so it’ll probably take a few issues before anyone should leap to any conclusions about who-is-what in this book! As part of the overall nature of misdirection, a lot of the characters are intended to have something of an iconic look; part of the fun, I think, of Empire is that the readers will be able to draw comparisons and expectations from their familiarity with the genre and then see them overturned pretty regularly.

Story points pretty much dictated the look of the world too; for instance palace is a massive structure and lavishly decorated while the rest of the world faces economic ruin as a result of all the wars that lead up to Golgoth’s victory. The world outside the palace is a pretty grim place. I don’t really want to say much beyond that as surprises are so much part of Empire that revealing too much could spoil some revelations to come!

THE PULSE: With the state of the world today, do you think Empire is almost a mirror image for the way some things are happening in other countries - minus the super powers, of course?

KITSON: To paraphrase a fictional British politician " You might well say that, but I couldn’t possibly comment!" ….comparisons are certainly there to be drawn!

THE PULSE: What are some of the goals with Empire? Where do you hope the series is next year at this time?

KITSON: The goals are really very simple; to create an entertaining and fresh comic! We’re having a great time creating this book and just trying to do something new in a genre we really love working in. If we can keep readers surprised and entertained by the tale that’s really all we can ask for!

It would be nice if we succeed and this time next year we’re gearing up for the next huge story arc – if the readers like the book and the marketplace can support it we’d love to be able to go with the saga… there’s certainly no shortage of ideas for story lines!

THE PULSE: Does it feel different to be working on a series like Empire where you've had a hand in it since day one - as opposed to a fill in issue or a run on a particular series? How is working on Empire different?

KITSON: Actually it feels pretty much like being home! Long, long ago, my first ongoing work for DC was L.E.G.I.O.N. and I stayed on that book for about five years I think… it’d be nice to do the same again. It is a great luxury to be able to design the characters and ‘be inside their heads’ before they are seen by anyone else. Also you obviously don’t have to bow to anyone else’s opinion on the characters – if you design them you can say definitively "This is what they look like!" and the wonderful thing is that when you own them too, no one else can take them away from you and turn them into something else without your say so!

THE PULSE: What do you like about working with Mark Waid?

KITSON: Apart from his being one of the best writers in comics? Probably that he is VERY generous in the role his lets me play in our collaborations ; he’s always open to any ideas I might like to throw in, we discuss plots at GREAT length together and throw ideas back and forth. We also work in a way which I think is pretty unique in that we continue to work on the pages right up until they leave my studio. I’ll send Mark scans of my thumbnails based the plot he sends me following our discussions – whole scenes can change at this stage …or even later if a better idea presents itself – I’ll also send him scans of the penciled pages for him to work out the dialogue on. He then sends me the dialogue before handing it in to Joey – but to be honest he’s such a master of dialogue I’m pretty redundant at this stage. It’s a very collaborative process and I think the respect we have for each other really makes it very rewarding.

THE PULSE: What do you dislike about working with Mark? When disagreements happen over what should or shouldn't occur in the comic, how do you guys solve them? Have there been any big disagreements over direction or flow of the book?

KITSON: I can't honestly say there’s anything I dislike about working with Mark – because of the way we work there’s never really point where disagreements can amount to anything. If one of us has an idea the other isn’t enthusiastic about we just offer another option. There’s a healthy competition of ideas between us – sometimes we’ll agree on a plot, then after a few days thinking about it one or the other of us will come up with what we think is a better idea and offer it up. If the new idea doesn’t make us both happier then what happens is a third idea will probably come along that trumps the first two. It means the story continues to grow in a very ‘organic’ way and is improving all the time…we hope! We do enjoying surprising each other with new ideas so hopefully that will transfer to the readers too.

THE PULSE: What's coming up in the first Empire arc? Are you retelling the Gorilla Comics issues or starting fresh with newer ideas? How similar is this to the groundwork laid out in the Gorilla series?

KITSON: The first two Gorilla issues will be reprinted in a DC#0 and there will be an all-new DC #1 on sale the same month I believe. Every issue is designed to be capable of standing on its own – they each have a story that begins and resolves within each issue, but is also part of a bigger story arc. I can’t reveal too much about the larger story itself without giving away any of the surprises which you’ll have gathered are at the heart of the thing. Despite the grand scale of the Empire the stories are still very much character driven and the first arc is really an ensemble piece centering on Golgoth and his ministers. Although they’re all dyed-in-the-wool villains I think there’s enough in them for readers to empathize with and want to follow what the fates have in store for them.

THE PULSE: Why should people check this series out?

KITSON: Essentially because I think(hope) it will be very entertaining and original – I can’t think of another series quite like it. I hope readers will find it refreshing, thought-provoking, maybe a little shocking, but definitely surprising. It’s definitely a series in which absolutely anything can …and often does happen.

I think it’s some of my best ever work…but then I would say that wouldn’t I!

THE PULSE: What other projects are you working on?

KITSON: Well at the moment Empire is it! Once the current arc is completed I’m going to be working on a very large JSA project which is definitely going to be a blast to draw and I’ve also been offered a story arc on the Fantastic Four which I’d absolutely love to do

THE PULSE: With the upcoming Fantastic Four arc, how different is working with Mark on that as opposed to working with him on Empire? How similar is the assignment?

KITSON: To be honest I can’t tell you yet! I know Mark has been writing full script for the series so far…whether he does that with any arc I draw I’ll have to wait and see!

THE PULSE: What is it about the Fantastic Four that made you want to work on one of their adventures?

KITSON: Well again, going back to some of my earlier answers – it’s really the fan in me being thrilled to get a chance to draw some of the characters I loved as a kid! I remember the FF when Jack Kirby was drawing it and being totally blown away by it – and to get a chance to draw it – how could I not be interested! I just hope I can do the book justice!

THE PULSE: What conventions will you be attending this year?

KITSON: At the moment the only ones I know for sure that I’ll be at are the UK Comic convention in Bristol and a convention in Avilles in Spain in September….I’d love to get a at least one in the states this year, but it could all depend on deadlines….