[SPOILER] Captain America post-Civil War

Well, okay….technically speaking, “Captain America” isn’t dead – Steve Rogers – the original Captain America is still dead, his body still deep under the Arctic waters, but as of last issue, James “Bucky” Barnes, Cap’s former sidekick, has taken up the mantle in a modified suit. Stepping into his mentor and friends boots has proven to be something of a challenge, especially given that the Red Skull is making one of his boldest attacks yet on America.

Last issue, mind-controlled SHIELD agents opened fire on unarmed protesters in Washington DC, and the ramifications are still being felt. Tony Stark is called in on the carpet, SHIELD's on partial lockdown, and Cap is facing down a full-on riot in DC that’s just a smokescreen to cover what’s really going on…that would be what looks like a burglary at the Senate Office Building.

We chatted up Ed Brubaker for more on Captain America #35

Newsarama: Ed, you opened with Falcon finding Faustus' prior hideout. Go over the status of Tony & company's actions right now - Falcon's doing recon, obviously, Tony's on damage control, but what are the other "arms" doing now?

Ed Brubaker: Well, at this point, other than the Mighty Avengers, S.H.I.E.L.D. is on standby, while Tony deals with the fallout from the shooting at the White House. So, effectively crippled during the night of the riot, and somewhat discredited. And since Tony was the only person claiming that Lukin isn't really dead, and the Skull is running Kronas, he's not being taken seriously right now, which is just what the Skull needed.

NRAMA: Falcon’s mention that he can’t be sure of the “when” of seeing Fastus at the house due to it having come from a bird was interesting. So how do birds perceive time? Have you given much thought to that, or was that just kind of a throwaway? It almost seemed like you were going all Gaiman-y there...

EB: I just assumed birds, like most animals, perceive the world differently than we do, as much based on their size and their need to eat so much all day as anything. So, it wasn't a throwaway, but... It's not like I'm Joe Bird Scientist either. I guess it was a little Gaiman-y, but that's not a bad thing, is it?

NRAMA: Not saying we need an arc of Sam talking to the robins and learning the poetry of springtime here…[laughs] Back to the main storyline, the authorization of Kane-Meyer to operate on US soil. Again, Captain America ties back to the current political climate. With that specific angle, did you see what was going on with Blackwater, et al and add that in, or are you at the point where you're writing this close enough to a modern-day America that we see similar elements bubbling to the surface at coincidental times?

EB: It's mostly coincidence. I don't think we've seen Blackwater doing anything like this on US soil, have we? I just know that there are some giant corporations who have their own high security arms, and their own armies, to some degree, and I wanted to tap into that a bit. Corporate interests are answerable only to themselves, so I find the idea of a corporate security force protecting Washington DC to be kind of fascinating.

NRAMA: And frightening. The "Mr. Secretary" that "Morovin" is speaking with - just a reminder - is he the Secretary of Defense?

EB: No, he's probably an undersecretary that deals with the economy. They're discussing the Kronas oil crisis, and negotiating a new price. But that scene is really meant to show that Morovin is just a hologram, being controlled by Lukin.

NRAMA: Lukin and Skull - can you give a quick rundown of the philosophical disagreement between them? Lukin wanted to only...what? To drive America away from capitalism?

EB: Lukin wanted to show that capitalism was empty, basically. He built the Kronas Corp. specifically for that purpose, to destroy American Capitalism from the inside. The Skull, though, has bigger and longer-term plans that than, so he took Lukin's plan and added to it,
basically.

NRAMA: Back on the streets - Bucky going into the riot - in the larger timeline of the book, is this his second time in costume? How's he feeling about the role now? He almost seems surprised that he's taking to it so quickly and so well...

EB: Yeah, this is his second time in costume. I think he's still awkward about it, but he's feeling confident, and that it's an important thing for him to do. As we'll see next issue, some parts are easier than others for him.

NRAMA: And Sharon - her narration - she' still faking it, that is, being under the control of Faustus?

EB: No, she's not faking it. She's at war within her own mind, trying to win back control so she can escape.

NRAMA: Let's talk about a couple of "shared universe" things...it's hard not to notice that, like many other Marvel books, this issue of Captain America carried the indicia/trade dress for Secret Invasion, and the cover for Cap #39 reveals another Cap approaching Bucky. How much will you be bringing Captain America (both the character and series) into Secret Invasion? After all, with things as they are, there are several characters in your current storyline who could be Skrulls, given what's been said about the Invasion, that is, to destabilize the country and superhero community...

EB: Well, I don't want to spoil anything about Secret Invasion, or Brian's plans in it... but this Cap storyline is its own thing. We're so deep into this, that I really can't see breaking off in the middle and tying into a huge event. I wish I could play in it, to some degree, but there's just no way to make it happen. If you see the new Cap involved in Secret Invasion at all, it's going to have to be in one of Brian's books.

NRAMA: Another "shared" aspect here - Black Widow in Cap doesn't quite match up with Widow in the Avengers titles - the Avengers version has shorter hair and was fiercely opposed to letting Luke Cage walk in New Avengers #38, but in Cap, is willingly working on a very grey side of things with a very unregistered hero. Given the character changes, as Brian has said could be a clue to who's a Skrull - is the Widow in Cap the same character as the one in Avengers?

EB: Yeah, she is, they're just drawing her a bit different. She's working with Bucky because they have a history, and because Tony asked her to. The registered and non-registered stuff isn't an issue on this one, not for her, at least.

NRAMA: All of that said, how easy/challenging is it to make Cap "fit" with the rest of the Marvel Universe as your story (ie Skull's plan) gets bigger and bigger? As Skull said in this issue, there are riots in many cities, but yet, nothing else aside from Cap reflects this. Likewise, no one else is looking at a SHIELD shutdown...

EB: Yeah, it can't fit in too much, really, which is fine. Back in the old days, when Kirby had Harlem on fire in Cap, you didn't see that reflected in any other Marvel comics, all of which took place in New York at the time. When you're telling a big epic like this, you just have to tell your story. The biggest way we'll probably see our story reflected is seeing the new Cap show up in Avengers or something like that. There's just too much stuff going on in our book, and in the other books, gearing up for the Secret Invasion story, for there to be much play there.

NRAMA: So, is the “sharing” something you even worry about?

EB: Not really. Ideally, every book should be able to be completely understood even if it's the only Marvel book you read, so I'm fine with that. Like I said, I'm in the middle of a huge epic, so just keeping my own story moving forward is enough to worry about. Worrying about other people playing in it isn't much of a concern.

NRAMA: We'll get to some teases for the next issue in a second, but before then, it was kind of hard to miss you this week in comic shops last week - not only were you in the back of every Marvel issue, but you had Daredevil and Criminal out as well. We'll talk DD with you coming up - but a quick word or two on Criminal - just for those who may have spotted Sean's cover and wondered...you're turning it into more of a magazine with this volume, right?

EB: Well, not exactly... it's still comics size, but it does have more pages now. The new #1 that just came out is 40 pages, over 30 of that the comics story for the issue, and the rest is filled with the text pieces and illustrations that the book has always had. We expanded the format
of the series, basically, so we could tell longer stories and have more room to experiment. After the first three issues, which are all stand-alone stories, we'll be having more articles in the back, too. But for these standalone issues, they went so long that there is barely room for one article each issue, actually.

NRAMA: And the story - your earlier volumes were connected by a thread. Is this one connected to anything previous?

EB: The real connection between the first two Criminal arcs, “Coward” and
“Lawless,” was the world and the bar, and the history of the characters. And that's still the connection. The book was designed so that every story would be new-reader-friendly and stand on its own. So, with this new #1, the main story was about a guy we'd seen in the previous two stories, as a bit player - Gnarly, the bartender at the Undertow. It's about the end of his career as a boxer and it actually turned out to be one of the hardest things I've ever written, too, but I was really happy with it in the end. It's a very layered noir tragedy that packs a lot into the issue. It starts in the 1950s, but it mainly takes place in the early ‘70s. The next two standalone issues also take place in the early ‘70s, all sort of circling around each other.

NRAMA: Okay - back to Cap...you left him facing down Sin and the Serpents, Sharon in peril, and a riot going on in DC. Next issue - that's the all song, all-dance one, right?

EB: Pretty much. Next issue is a lot of action. I see issues #35 and #36 as one piece, basically, where we're really priming the pump for the next act of the story – “The Man Who Bought America” - so we really had to see the Red Skull and Lukin's plans taking effect. By the end of #36, most people will have a fairly good idea where this is headed.

by Matt Brady

Yes, this week’s issue of Captain America (#36) required us to change the title of our regular chat with writer Ed Brubaker once again, thanks to the final reveal of the issue (more on that later). So what was going on this month? Bucky continues along his path as the new Captain America with bumps and hurdles along the way. He was able to stop Sin and her Serpent Society, true (using both his knife and gun – why carry ‘em if you’re not going to use them?), although Sin escaped, and Crossbones…he won’t be talking to anyone for a while.

Meanwhile, Red Skull figured out who this new Cap is, Tony Stark lied to the Vice President of the United States about his knowledge of the new Captain America, and Sharon…well Sharon found something pretty darn interesting in Red Skull’s basement.

Let’s talk to Ed.

Newsarama: Ed, let’s start with that opening fight - probably wouldn't have caused any fan a spilt-second of worry had it been Steve in the costume, but as you even had Bucky say, he was overconfident about taking on Sin and her Serpent Squad all on his own. Is this youthful exuberance on Bucky's part, or is he still "showing off" a little - even to himself....trying to prove that he deserves to wear the suit?

Ed Brubaker: Yeah, I think he's a bit cocky, and kind of always has been, even in his sidekick days. He'd have to have had a certain amount of attitude to take that gig in the first place back then, really. And he was always a scrapper growing up, which was very different from Steve Rogers youth, obviously. But I think there's probably a part of him that's trying to prove he can do this on his own.

NRAMA: I think that also touches upon a larger issue - Bucky took the job after it was implied to him it’s what Steve wanted. Was there an iota of Bucky that thought he was ready for the job, or was he taking it so no one else would?

EB: I think he did it for a lot of reasons. I think he was hitting a wall with his anger and grief, and seeing that through everything he was going through, Steve was still wanting to make sure Bucky was saved... I think that got to him, and when Stark made the suggestion "that someone is going to carry on the legacy, and I think it should be you" I think he kept thinking about what Steve would want, and so he's trying to live up to that. He's trying to be something he never thought he'd be, in honor of his fallen friend.

NRAMA: Okay – back into the issue. The Serpent Squad - they were looking to take the Senator they (The Skull and his crew) were working with out? Whyfore?

EB: You'll see next issue.



NRAMA: For those who maybe came on with #25, or even just at the start of this volume of Cap, give us the quick Crossbones 411...we've seen Bucky kick major ass earlier. Why's he having a tough time with this guy who looks like a Mexican wrestler?

EB: Well, he was already a bit roughed up before Crossbones arrived, and then Crossbones announced himself by shooting him twice in the back, breaking some ribs and pretty much making it hard for him to breathe or move much, at first. Crossbones is a tough fighter, for sure, but just because Cap's suit was bulletproof doesn't mean he could just leap back up easily. Every blow he got in after that was a huge effort.

NRAMA: Moving on to Bucky's Public Speaking 101 on the job lesson...Had this been Steve up there, would the people have listened? One would imagine that Steve may have used different words, and there is probably something about his voice...

EB: I think Steve just had a real commanding presence, so yeah, he'd have gotten through to at least some of them. But that was an important moment, for Bucky to try, at least. To recognize the job doesn't end with knowing how to handle the shield.

NRAMA: Again, in this issue we saw Tony. Ed, you've said before that this Cap run really doesn't have much to do with Civil War and its ramifications and, to an extent, the larger Marvel Universe events...but still...you've got Tony Stark lying to the veep about an unregistered hero. Surely that has to have some ramifications on Tony and how he would act in other situations he finds himself in. After all, if he advocates the SHRA after this, he's something of a hypocrite, isn't he?

EB: Yeah, but he's been doing that a lot anyway. Letting some unregistered heroes go their own way.

Plus, he doesn't know who he can trust, remember? What if Cheney is a Skrull?

NRAMA: And shooting the guy in the face was merely a ploy…hm. Anyway – back to Cap - Natasha tells Bucky that Tony's dealt with the red tape in regards to SHIELD, - but is Kane Meyer still operating in the DC area?

EB: You'll see in the next few issues what becomes of all that stuff.

NRAMA: What were your panel descriptions for MIke in the scene between Bucky and Natasha? Did you tell him to draw him like a hurt kid when she told him that they wouldn't be seeing that much of one another? Not to blow too much sunshine up, but in that panel – he went from tough as nails hero to dejected 17 year-old…



EB: Well, here's the script for some of that scene, so you can judge for yourself:

2—Bucky sits, with the towel hanging around his neck. He looks tired.
She gives him a wry smile.

BUCKY: So, it’s business-as-usual again _already_? Stark is good.

WIDOW: I wouldn’t say _as usual_… S.H.I.E.L.D.’s credibility is damaged.

WIDOW: All our _ops_ on US soil are going under a microscope… For now.

3—Then he stands up, stretching unconsciously, and she nods at him. We see Cap’s shield hanging on the wall nearby, or more like dangling from a coat hook, ready to be practiced with.

BUCKY: Which means, _what_?

WIDOW: That since you’re now _front page news_, you and I won’t be seeing as much of each other.

4—He pauses and raises his brows, just a little, like he wasn’t expecting this.

BUCKY: Oh…

5—Then he looks down, in silhouette.

BUCKY: Okay.

NRAMA: Age-wise...this is weird...chronologically, Bucky is old enough to be Natasha's father (if we ignore that Claremont/Lee stuff that showed her as a kid circa WWII), but because of the Winter Soldier program, she's now "older" than him due to his periods in the 'fridge?

EB: Let's not think about it too much. He's late 20s physically, and she hasn't really aged since the 60s. And remember, they met in the ‘50s, when she was a teenager in training at the Red Room, and we can't ignore the Natasha as a kid during the war stuff, because it's become canon, as you can see from recent Wolverine issues.

So, they're in the same ballpark, at least. And they've both lived through a ton of stuff that no one else can understand, or few people can, at least.

NRAMA: In the last decade, one of Cap's defining traits was that he was pretty lonely when you stripped everything else away, due to his time displacement. If Cap's loneliness was at a 5, where's Bucky's? Again...some of those images from Mike were kind of haunting...that after Natasha leaves, he’s utterly alone…

EB: I would say it's about the same, but taken to a different level because he feels like such an outcast, because of his Winter Soldier past. A lot of that will change over the next year or so, though.

NRAMA: Okay – the last couple of pages. Sharon's escape attempt and the reveal -which voice was which in there? The "good" Sharon is talking, right?

EB: Yeah, if you read it closely, you can see that she's broken free, mentally, at least. She's won the battle for control of her own mind, at least for now. Her desire to save her baby pushed her too far, basically, and she broke Faustus's hold on her.



NRAMA: Okay, buddy - that body in the tube...let's get your thoughts on the possibilities:

a) Clone - been done before, after all, and Skull would probably have kept some tissue around...

EB: It's not a clone.

NRAMA: b) Skrull - again, a Skrull has posed as Cap before, during Mark Waid's run...

EB: It's not a Skrull.

NRAMA: c) Cap from the past - he's been shot through time before, and has a story like that coming up in Avengers/Invaders...

EB: It's nothing to do with the Avengers/Invaders book.

NRAMA: d) The real deal - but he's in the Arctic...

EB: Is he? When was the last time we saw him? Not saying that's what this
is, but still... who knows? I'm not saying.

NRAMA: But we saw the shriveled body...was that a red herring that was shown to Sharon? Who was in the Fallen Son casket, then?

EB: That was the real Steve's body, which was buried at sea in Fallen Son #5.

NRAMA: So - just so we're straight on this, you're pretty much guaranteeing that what happens in Captain America is, so to speak, isolated from the rest of the Marvel U for now? How did you manage that? He's one of the icons...

EB: All I've been saying is that we're in the middle of a huge Cap epic, and that the things happening in it are part of the big story we've been telling, not coming from other books or events. You may see New Cap in Secret Invasion or in other comics, but our story is just moving full steam ahead, because we're so deep into it. You may see reflections of what's happening in the rest of the Marvel U in our book here and there, too, but I'm not going to stop in the middle of a huge story to suddenly tie-in to a crossover. We've got a lot of story to tell, still. And remember, publishing schedules and continuity are not the same thing. In our book, only a few months has passed since Cap was killed, which in Avengers it could be six months or more. That's the nature of publishing a bunch of different books with the same characters, they don't all happen the same week they're published.

NRAMA: And this is all part of the plan, dating back to the original start of the storyline with Lukin, the Cube, Skull, and all the rest?

EB: The stuff happening in the book now? Yeah, I've been building to this since issue #1, actually - the Red Skull and Lukin plot part, especially. Other stuff has changed over the years, but this is basically the same story I've been planning from the start.

NRAMA: Okay - so take it from here, Ed...where are we headed next? A kid Cap, a robot Cap, an alien Cap and a cyborg Cap for real now?

EB: You'll just have to wait and see. I'm keeping all the cards close for now.

NRAMA: More seriously - we've seen the cover to #39...is the reveal here related to that cover?

EB: Yes. But that's all I'm saying.

Next month, in Captain America #37: